Hi Brent,
May I say that I truly admire your willingness to ask questions, it IS the best way to learn, isn't it?
I will address each point as you mentioned it. I will try to keep my answers as short as I possibly can. Therefore, there will, no doubt, be a need for further discussion. But these comments may get us started.
You wrote, "I strongly believe that 1 Thessalonians 4 talks about the rapture (mid acts position)".
Well, I said I would address each point and here I am stuck already. I'm stuck because I don't know your reasons for believing so strongly in the rapture. Let me share what I see as one of the difficulties with that view. In verse 15 Paul wrote, "WE which are alive and remain". The word "we" indicates that Paul was expecting the Lord's return in his life time. That means that he didn't know about the interceding dispensation of the mystery. If Paul didn't know about it, obviously it had not yet been revealed. If it hadn't been revealed, the dispensation of the mystery could not have begun at the time Paul wrote I Thess. Given that fact I would appreciate it if you were to give a reason for your belief in this matter and perhaps we can go from there. Thank you.
You wrote, "but then comes romans 11 where it talks about Israel being cut out (mid acts position)".
May I suggest we back up a minute. I believe that it is a reasonable thing to say that if we are going to understand this passage correctly we must differentiate between INDIVIDUAL Jews and Israel as a NATION. Let's consider the wild branches that were grated in. They were INDIVIDUAL Gentiles that were grafted into the good olive tree, not Gentiles NATIONS. How did these INDIVIDUALS come to be grafted in? Because some INDIVIDUAL Jews were cut out of the tree because of UNBELIEF. My point is that while it is true that some unbelieving Jews were cut out of the tree, the tree was still standing. (If you would like the Scriptural evidence for the fact that the good olive tree represents Israel please let me know.)
In this statement, you have, in my opinion, hit on the main error in the mid-Acts position. You wrote, "If the post acts position is right, why does that mean in terms of how to be saved during the period around acts 20? What about in Galatians where Paul tells us he was the minister unto the uncircumcision?
I will address this in sections.
Let's address the question of how one is saved. In point of fact Eph. 2:8-9 is a universal truth. That is to say, it is true of every person in every dispensation. How do we know that? Rom. 4:3 is, of course a quote from Gen. 15:6 and tells us that "Abraham BELIEVED God and it was counted unto him as righteousness". To believe God is to have faith in Him. In fact the Greek words translated "faith" and "believe" come from the same root. Then in Rom. 4:6 we read, "even as David also described". That tells us that David, who lived, of course, after the law was given, describes the same thing, i.e. man is made rightoeus by FAITH/BELIEF.
In other words, Paul tells us in Rom. 4 that Abraham was saved by faith and David writes the same thing. (I will address the idea of salvation by faith PLUS works later in this message.)
Now let's consider your statement, "What about in Galatians where Paul tells us he was the minister unto the uncircumcision?".
Forgive me, but this is another great error in the mid-Acts position, and unfortunately among some Acts 28 believers as well. That error is that the preaching to the Gentiles had something to do with the change of dispensations, it did not. How do we know that?
1) We read in Rom. 1:19-20, "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them, for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".
This passage tells us that Gentiles had always had the opportunity to know God through His creation because
2) "God is no respecter of persons" (Acts 10), which is proved by the fact that
3) God draws ALL MEN to Himself and that God so loved THE WORLD that He sent His only son (Jn. 3:16).
My point is that there is nothing new in the Gentiles being given the opportunity to accept God's gift of salvation, because they had always had that opportunity. And there is certainly nothing new about Paul going to the Gentiles, because Peter did so before Paul as recorded in Acts 10.
You asked, "In post-acts beliefs, what was the difference in his message, besides the explanation of the mystery?".
Salvation is a universal truth, i.e. it has always been the same, there was no difference after Acts than before or during. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the mystery was the only new truth, as it involved several different truths as well, but I will let it go with that for now. Suffice it to say, there was nothing new in terms of salvation in Paul's message after the Acts period.
I would like to comment on your suggestion of a transition. Your suggestion comes from the belief that salvation was, at one time by faith PLUS works. But as we read in Rom. 4, quoted above, believers, before and after the law, were saved by grace. Let me add to that.
James writes of another universal truth, i.e. one that is true of every person in every dispensation. We read in James 2:17, "Even so faith, if it hath not works is dead being alone. This does not say that one is saved by faith PLUS works, it says that one must prove his faith BY his work, "by works is faith made perfect" (James 2:22).
In point of fact the same is true of the present dispensation of the mystery. How do we know that? We read in Phl. 2:12, "....work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". Was Paul saying that we are saved by works? Of course not. He was saying the same as James when James wrote "Was not Abraham....justified by works" (James 2:21).
In other words, neither James or Paul are saying that one is saved by works or by faith PLUS works. They are saying that one is saved by grace through faith and that one's faith must be PROVED by their works.
I believe that once one understands that God's plan of salvation has always been "by grace through faith" and that one has always (and still does) need to prove his faith by his works, one is a great deal closer to understanding dispensaitonal truth.
Sorry this is so long.
In Christ,
Joyce |
