alright, here i go
for a ight-divider, you sure quote James a lot. James does not open up with "and i write these things which are universal truths" but instead with "to the 12 tribes".
Thereofore, what ever James says in his book is to Israel during the tribulation. And, i belive that Israel was and will be saved by faith plus works.
As far as the verse of "work out your own salvation" i would like to point out the singularity of "work". This verse does not talk about "workS".
I believe Paul is saying something like: Hey, if you aren't sure Jesus was raised from the dead, then you better work it out and find the answer to make yourself sure!
Now, as far as works are concerned, in no way do i believe any works are necessary to be saved (in this dispensation).
All that's needed is faith! If you think you need works, then you don't believe Jesus did all the work for you.
That is where i come from. Jesus did ALL the WORKS necessary for me to get to heaven. the only thing i have to do is be;ieve/accept that.
Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness....what work was listed there?
Roamns 11:"6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. "
Romans 4:"4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, "
If i believe in Jesus' finished work on the cross, but don't outwardly show it, will i not be saved?
I am a sinner and all my actions are like "filthy rags".
As for "everyone needs some grace" you are right. I was wrong. I should have said "everyone needs Jesus"
But, i repeat the question back to you. Ephesians 2:8 tells us we are saved BY GRACE, yet you said "doesn't that tell you that works is an integral part of salvation in this dispesnation too"
So, Joyce, how are we saved by grace with works being an integral part of being saved, too?
I am really counfused, i don't understand how you didn't just contradict yourself. You are correct in saying that Rom 4:4-6 distinguishes between works and faith. And that grace and works are 2 seperate things. So why are you trying to say we need to have works to prove our faith?
Your last sentence was "Grace and works are diametrically oppossed to each other, but you have them both as part of the salvation. that utterly defies logic."
Isn't that what you're doing? You know we are saved by grace, but you still wanna squeeze works in there. i don't get it
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