Brent,
You are saying that there are no universal truths in James, and there can't be because his epistle is addressed to the 12 tribes. I suggest we take a closer look at even the very opening of James.
1:8, "a double minded man is unstable in all his ways". You don't think that's true for today??
1:13, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God;' for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man". According to you this is not true in the present dispensation, i.e. God can be tempted with evil. Is that what you believe, that God can be tempted of evil???
1:17, "Every good gift and ever perfect gift is from above.....". I guess you don't believe that's true today. I do!!!
11:22, Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only....". and tha't just in the first chapter.
My point is that we must not disregard James, just because he wrote to the 12. If we do, we do it at our own loss.
In regard to Phil. 2:22 ("work out your own salvation") you wrote, "I believe Paul is saying something like: Hey, if you aren't sure Jesus was raised from the dead, then you better work it out and find the answer to make yourself sure".
But as my first message proved from Scripture, the Greek word translated "work out" means, basically "accomplish". In other words, Paul is saying we should "accomplish" our own salvation. As I said to the person on the thread about Rom. 2 and 3 (is that you?) this is "the other side of the same coin", as Mr. Welch would say. That is to say, faith is COMPLETED by works. Let me give a rather mundane example of that concept.
A pie is made up of a crust and a filling. If we have only the crust (only faith) it isn't really a pie until it is completed with the filling (works). So salvation is like the pie. It requires faith and works to make a complete faith that is unto salvation.
You wrote, "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness....what work was listed there? "
Now that we see that James has many universal truths let me answer that question by quoting James 2:21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" That was one of the works Abraham "accomplished" which "completed" his faith.
And you wrote, "Your last sentence was "Grace and works are diametrically oppossed to each other, but you have them both as part of the salvation. that utterly defies logic." Isn't that what you're doing? You know we are saved by grace, but you still wanna squeeze works in there. i don't get it".
Yes, you don't get it. so let me explain again. Let me refer to my pie again. The crust and the filling are two very different things, but when combined they make a pie. So too faith and works, when combined make faith unto salvation because FAITH IS COMPLETED (James 2:22) BY WORKS. James says the same thing about the body as I am saying about faith. He wrote in verse 26, "For as the body (the crust of the pie) without the spirit (the filling of the pie) is dead, so faith without works is dead also" In other words, Without both faith, and works that COMPLETE that faith, (James 2:22) that faith is not one that will lead to salvation, i.e. it is dead.
By the way, it is not I that is "squeezing works in there", it is Paul when he wrote that we are "work out" (i.e. accomplish) our own salvation.
I realize that these are different thoughts, but I would ask you to consider them carefully before you respond, as I have your comments.
In Christ
Joyce |
